[PAA-Discuss] [MANDELL] Finkelstein Interviewed
robert
rgg-629 at sbcglobal.net
Tue Sep 18 13:24:28 EDT 2007
So...Do you really think anybody believes this stuff about the "RAPTURE"
except a few theo-fascist and the sheeple who believe the last thing they
were told? No...the Zio-Nazis are USING these Christian Zionist just l;ike
they used Arafat. There whole pyramid scheme is based on the stupidity of
Americans to go along, because they are afraid to say anything negative
about these people.
_____
From: MANDELL at yahoogroups.com [mailto:MANDELL at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Ron and Kris Graham
Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 9:14 AM
To: MANDELL at yahoogroups.com; Discuss at paa-tx.org;
notinourname at yahoogroups.com; houstonpeaceroundtable at yahoogroups.com;
Woodheadbridgetopeace at Yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [MANDELL] Finkelstein Interviewed
Thanks for sending the article, Robert. I like this Finkelstein fellow. He
has guts and a strong conscience and the will to get information out to
people. I do disagree with his assertion, however, that the Israel lobby had
nothing to do with why the United States is in Iraq and why the United
States government is just itching to bomb Iran. I think the U.S. government
is being pressured to some extent by the Israeli government to decimate both
countries. The invasion of Iraq was not only about oil, but also about
procuring land for Israel so it can extend its tentacles across the Middle
East. After all, we must make the land safe for Jesus triumphant return.
Glory Hallelujah!!! Praise God!! Can I get an AMEN?!
Here's what I can't figure out: if we have to make the land safe for Jesus'
return by wiping out all the dirty Muslims then won't the unbelieving Jews
all burn in the eternal lake of fire? This doesn't sound like a good deal
for the Jews to me. It appears they're going to get a good buggering. What
do you say?
Kris
_____
From: MANDELL at yahoogroups.com [mailto:MANDELL at yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
robert
Subject: [MANDELL] Finkelstein Interviewed
Finkelstein Interviewed
ZNET - September 16, 2007
Israel critic Norman Finkelstein made national headlines after his tenure
was denied by DePaul University. Finkelstein, an author of five books, had
received outstanding reviews from his students and peers. His dismissal
sparked student protests and sit-ins, and led top academics to rally to his
defence. Many questioned whether campuses had fallen victim to powerful
pressure groups.
In this interview with George McLeod, Norman Finkelstein discusses the
Israel lobby, his writings and what makes the Israel issue unusually
sensitive in the US.
McLeod: What is unique about the Israel/Palestine issue that makes it so
controversial and sensitive?
Finkelstein: There is nothing unusual about the Israel/Palestine issue,
apart from the fact that there is a lobby here that prevents any kind of
rational debate and discussion about what goes on there.
The conflict itself is not particularly unusual. And its main features are
fairly well-known, especially outside the US.
There is no other field where a gang of hoodlums use their money and their
brass knuckles to prevent tenure appointments, and that's very odd. There
are other politicised fields like Cuba studies or China studies - but these
kinds of jihads and witch hunts - they just don't go on in other fields.
In Israel/Palestine academia, in the past few years, you have the Juan Cole
case at Yale, you have the Joseph Massad case, you have the Nadi
Abuel-El-Haj case, you have my case, and you have the Rashid Khalidi case.
But you take other fields that are politicised, like China studies and Cuba
studies where there is a lobby at work, they just don't engage in these
sorts of mafia tactics.
McLeod: There are many lobby groups in the US with significant resources at
their disposal that have not been accused of stifling debate. What makes the
Israel lobby different?
Finkelstein: The Israel lobby has money. Money is important because it can
be used to threaten to withhold donor contributions or alumni contributions,
and the lobby has a lot of clout in the media, so they can drag your name
through the mud.
McLeod: Does your case suggest that the Israel lobby is growing stronger and
that debate over Israel is narrowing?
Finkelstein: Actually, there is more debate on Israel/Palestine than ever.
In terms of its strength, the Israel lobby is beginning to fall apart. The
case for Israel is becoming indefensible. Israel's human rights record, the
actual historical record, and the diplomatic record, are becoming better
known. And the more the facts are becoming part of mainstream discourse, the
more the lobby has a difficult time defending what is indefensible.
McLeod: How can the lobby be falling apart if it controls such significant
resources?
Finkelstein: The lobby is strong, but it is weaker than ever. They had
several debacles this last year. There was the Jimmy Carter book, which
ended up as number one on the New York Times best-seller list and there is
the Walk & Mearsheimer book - these are all signs of the weakening power of
the lobby.
McLeod: Did the lobby have a role in your tenure dispute?
Finkelstein: Of course.
McLeod: On a practical level, what was the lobby doing regarding your tenure
bid?
Finkelstein: The university doesn't deny that [it was pressured]. The
university has repeatedly said there was intense outside pressure. They
claim to have resisted it, but they don't deny that it had been exerted.
McLeod: Why were you singled out over other academics that criticise Israel?
Finkelstein: I am more active. Most other critics confine their criticisms
to academic venues such as conferences and academic journals - but I am
pretty active. I speak to a lot to audiences; I make my presence known in
the political arena.
McLeod: Does the fact that you lost your tenure bid suggest that academic
freedom is in decline?
Finkelstein: No, I wouldn't say that - I was a bit of an odd case because I
was both an academic and highly political. Most academics are not involved
in politics, except in the very narrow world of academia. So the standards
of academia remain the same as they have been.
McLeod: One of your most controversial positions has been your contention
that pro-Israel groups and individuals are using the holocaust for political
purposes. Could you discuss your views on this?
Finkelstein: I've written a whole book on that topic - The Holocaust
Industry, which basically tries to document and show how the Nazi holocaust
has been used since the June 1967 war as a political weapon to suppress
criticism of Israel.
I argue that it takes basically two forms. First is the claim of Holocaust
uniqueness, which is that no people in the world have ever suffered the ways
Jews have. The purpose of this doctrine, which has no intellectual or MORAL
foundation, is to basically immunize Israel from criticism.
That is, if Jews suffered uniquely during the Holocaust, then they should
not be held to the same moral standards as others.
The second aspect of this Holocaust dogma is the claim that all the gentiles
want to kill the Jews - the thesis of Daniel Goldhagen Hitler's Willing
Executioners. And therefore, all gentiles are latently or flagrantly
anti-Semitic, so their criticism of Israel cannot be credited.
McLeod: And what sort of response did the book receive?
Finkelstein: When the book came out, it was the object of a vicious attack.
A lot of name calling, a lot of ad homonem attacks on me. But now, I think a
large part of what I wrote back then has become mainstream. And the
Holocaust Industry has even been the object of ridicule by mainstream
figures - not my book but the industry itself.
So, for example the wife of the former executive director of the US
Holocaust museum in Washington, Tova Reich just published a satirical novel
on the Holocaust Industry and it was quite well reviewed.
McLeod: Why was the book so rigorously attacked?
Finkelstein: Because nobody was saying it at the time, but things have
changed. For example, take my position of the money that was being extorted
from Europe for what was called needy Holocaust victims. The fact that the
victims never actually got the money has become commonplace.
McLeod: What do you think about the recently-released book The Israel Lobby
and US Foreign Policy by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt?
Finkelstein: Parts of it I agree with, parts of it I don't.
For example, I don't think there's any evidence that the is lobby was a
crucial factor in the decision for the US to go to war in Iraq and I don't
think that there is evidence that US policy in the Middle East in general is
shaped by the lobby.
However, I do think that the lobby is a crucial factor in determining US
policy towards the Palestinians.
I don't think it determined US policy in Iran, in Turkey or in Iraq. But on
the Israel-Palestine conflict - the building of settlements and the
colonisation of Palestine, I think it is a crucial factor.
McLeod: You also exposed serious problems with the popular book From Time
Immemorial by Joan Peters, which argued that Palestine was almost empty of
inhabitants prior to the arrival of western migrants. The book had received
excellent reviews and was a best-seller. How did you come to realise there
were problems with the book?
Finkelstein: Very simple answer, I read it.
McLeod: But you were not the only one. It was a popular book.
I am not sure how many people read it back then - I am not sure how many
people actually read books now.
For example, I am not sure how many people who claim to have read Hitler's
Executioners actually read it - I doubt people actually read Joan Peters. I
mean most of these books are unreadable - they're completely illiterate.
People don't know that because they don't read them.
McLeod: Do you mean the footnotes, or literally the book?
Finkelstein: I don't think they read the book. Nobody reads footnotes.
The fact that it sold well tells you nothing - these books are good for a
coffee table. There is a famous line by Christopher Hitchens. Someone asked
him: "Did you read this book?'' To which he answered "Let's put it this way.
I reviewed it.''
Anyone who actually reads the kinds of books that I expose and has a mind
capable of rationally assimilating information can't help but notice that
books like Peters' are incomprehensible and are completely absurd.
McLeod: Alan Dershowirz has argued that Israel received a disproportionate
amount of criticism. Do you think other countries with worse human rights
records, such as Saudi Arabia and Myanmar, should be receiving more
criticism?
Finkelstein: Well there are a number of issues. First, as a matter of
language, Dershowitz doesn't argue anything because Dershowitz doesn't know
anything. He's a complete ignoramus, so I don't agree with the formulation
that Dershowitz argues.
Maybe Dershowitz shouts, but argues? No. He doesn't know anything.
On the question of proportionality. If you look at the reports of human
rights organisations, such as Human Rights Watch, there have not been a
significantly larger number of reports on Israel/Palestine than on other
noteworthy places such as Darfur. The numbers have been tabulated; you can
go and check with them, it's simply untrue.
Number three, the Israel/Palestine conflict does have a noteworthy feature -
it is the longest running occupation in modern history. So, had Israel
resolved it 40 years ago, perhaps it wouldn't receive so much attention.
But the fact that it has been ongoing for 40 years, which is probably longer
than the lifetime of most people living on the planet - most people are
under 40 years old - means it was going on before most people were born.
Therefore, it's not surprising that it would be the object of so much
attention.
McLeod: Does the failure of your tenure bid make you regret your vocal
stance on this issue?
Finkelstein: No, I'm just glad it's over.
McLeod: What are your plans for the future?
Finkelstein: I don't know, it's too soon to tell. I am glad that the DePaul
nightmare is over and I will surely miss my students, but otherwise, I want
to get on with doing serious work and put that chapter very far behind me.
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=22&ItemID=13796
Last updated 18/09/2007
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